Squad Wars v2

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Squad Wars v2

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:40 pm

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BlackDove
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I'll post the IRC chatlog here, this will give you a basic idea of what's been discussed on the topic so far.
[19:18] <SSX-Killjoy> but I think there maybe a way to do it wihtout the whole elitism crap
[19:18] <Athrun_Zala> exactly
[19:18] <Athrun_Zala> think it'd be possible?
[19:18] <Tepa> no theres not kj
[19:18] <SSX-Killjoy> yep
[19:18] <Athrun_Zala> so you could get FS2 to talk to a website?
[19:18] <SSX-Killjoy> it just requires alot of maintenance
[19:18] <Athrun_Zala> yeah, that'd probably be the only downside
[19:18] <SSX-Killjoy> to be honest with enough time, I can get anything to do anything
[19:19] <Athrun_Zala> so why not give it a go when you have some spare time (if you ever get some)
[19:19] <Athrun_Zala> it'd be great to have that again, in a controlled environment
[19:19] <SSX-Killjoy> that is what I have been working on since yesterday
[19:20] <Athrun_Zala> neat-o
[19:20] <Athrun_Zala> think you can copy the squadwar model as it was?
[19:20] <Athrun_Zala> a map, nodes, challenging, etc.
[19:20] <Tepa> bd really take look how many ppl still plays fs2
[19:20] <Tepa> id personally say its waste of time to get it running again
[19:21] <Athrun_Zala> hmm i'd have to disagree there
[19:21] <SSX-Killjoy> it depends Tepa, the game is free. So chances are we could get more players
[19:21] <SSX-Killjoy> If we can make it worht their while to play
[19:21] <Athrun_Zala> i think people would be much more involved if there would be something to do there
[19:21] <Athrun_Zala> kj said the same thing
[19:21] <Tepa> installition needs to be fixed more simplier
[19:22] <Athrun_Zala> i think i can actually find the old map somewhere kj.....somewhere being the key word
[19:22] <SSX-Killjoy> well agreed
[19:22] <SSX-Killjoy> but much is in the works to make it easier
[19:22] <Tepa> peeps can just say <censored> it when they cant get it run
[19:22] <Athrun_Zala> actually
[19:22] <Tepa> million diffrent exe's
[19:22] <SSX-Killjoy> if I can make the multi stuff awesome, then I think I can help make it packageable
[19:22] <Athrun_Zala> fahd should have the map he designed
[19:22] <Athrun_Zala> it looked _WAY_ better than the old one
[19:23] <Tepa> lotsa diff VP files
[19:23] <SSX-Killjoy> and if we can make it packageable. then we can put up on fileplanet
[19:23] <SSX-Killjoy> and then we will have players
[19:23] <SSX-Killjoy> probalby mroe than we can handle
[19:23] <SSX-Killjoy> 8-)
[19:23] <Athrun_Zala> it's also possible people would come back once they learned squadwars are back in town and bug-free/maintained
[19:23] <Athrun_Zala> because it _was_ pretty much the main point of the game
[19:23] <Tepa> and pretty much caused all the BS
[19:23] <Athrun_Zala> if kj put his skillz into it, it'd probably be better than the old design
[19:24] <Athrun_Zala> not when you can ban people tepa
[19:24] <Athrun_Zala> anyone who causes crap, gets sanctioned
[19:24] <Athrun_Zala> something we missed back in the day
[19:25] <Tepa> well or basicly its not my concern cuz i dont fly them my SW was prolly last SW matchg on PXO
[19:25] <Tepa> next day sw's were gone
[19:25] <Athrun_Zala> if kj codes it the right way, this could be a very enjoyable aspect of FS2
[19:26] <SSX-Killjoy> plus there is alot of work that needs to be done on player rankings
[19:27] <SSX-Killjoy> to create a formula that is more balanced, than just max number of points
[19:27] <SSX-Killjoy> with a good formula, very few would be able to maintain a best standing
[19:27] <Tepa> also ed needs to force that 1 exe only thing
[19:27] <SSX-Killjoy> it would be constantly changing
[19:28] <SSX-Killjoy> yeah there is alot of things that could be done
[19:28] <CheeseBird> Rankings suck :P
[19:28] <SSX-Killjoy> yes they do.. but some people love 'em
[19:28] <Tepa> so u do tb :D
[19:28] <Athrun_Zala> rankings are pointless really
[19:28] <Athrun_Zala> but if kj could think something up, i guess they could be made their worth
[19:29] <Tepa> i play coops cuz ppl allways whines when they get asskicked on my games
[19:29] <Athrun_Zala> as it is now, the "points" retarded system, as in just hogging RI, is dumb
[19:29] <Athrun_Zala> actually
[19:29] <Athrun_Zala> i think we should invalidate RI, that thing is retarded to no end, as fun as a mission as it is
[19:30] <Tepa> heh talk to ed
[19:30] <Tepa> i allrdy spoke him with same matter sometime ago
[19:30] <Tepa> he suggested an rotatin mission validate
[19:33] <Athrun_Zala> well we can talk common sense when everything is up and good
[19:33] <Athrun_Zala> KJ, do you remember how www.squadwar.com worked? i think i can remember most of it.....you?
[19:34] <Tepa> tho bd theres 1 minor matter
[19:34] <Tepa> we r not sure did V removed SW code from the source they gave
[19:34] <Athrun_Zala> why would that be a problem?
[19:34] <Tepa> if they did that must be rebuild
[19:35] <Athrun_Zala> well that's what we're talking about i think
[19:35] <Tepa> oh i tought it was just the WWW side
[19:35] <Athrun_Zala> getting KJ to get the game talking to a webiste, and build an efficient system from scratch
[19:36] <Athrun_Zala> if he knows how the previous system worked, he can draw reasonable conclusions and just copy the basic system while making it his own (or something similar to that effect)
[19:37] <SSX-Killjoy> I remember the basic principles of how it worked
[19:37] <SSX-Killjoy> But there are some things I think that shoudl have been handled different, and better.. and so I will try to persue making those kinds of changes
[19:38] <Athrun_Zala> too true
[19:38] <Athrun_Zala> a lot of it was kind of shabby to be honest
[19:38] <SSX-Killjoy> thrown together you mean.. not that I can blame them
[19:38] <Athrun_Zala> but i think i can remember most of it how it worked on the admin side of things
[19:38] <SSX-Killjoy> they did have alot of things they wanted to do
[19:38] <SSX-Killjoy> Right now my concern is making sure the server app we are using for PXO will be able to handle our needs
[19:39] <SSX-Killjoy> and so I have been working on that currently
[19:39] <Athrun_Zala> sounds good
[19:41] <Tepa> i got 1 old SW map
[19:41] <Tepa> NA i thjink
[19:41] <Athrun_Zala> they were all the same if i recall
[19:42] <Athrun_Zala> same number of nodes, etc.
[19:42] <Athrun_Zala> think you can host it?
[19:42] <Tepa> the map is hosted
[19:42] <Tepa> gimme a sec
[19:43] <Tepa> http://koti.mbnet.fi/darkwing/Msg/na.jpg
[19:44] <Tepa> takes a little edit to get fixed
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> I think that the node map needs some work as well
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> I think each node shoudl have a random number of planets to take over
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> before you can have the node
[19:44] <Tepa> cool idea
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> so that it helps prevent just mass node taking
[19:44] <Tepa> how bout even add like defence mission
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> you could always ahve a node where you have 2/3rds of it, but can't take the last one
[19:44] <Tepa> like attacker has no AIs
[19:44] <SSX-Killjoy> so you can't get it
[19:45] <Tepa> defender has cap ship ?
[19:45] <SSX-Killjoy> maybe
[19:45] <SSX-Killjoy> why not?
[19:45] <SSX-Killjoy> hehehe
[19:45] <SSX-Killjoy> Just and idea I have
[19:45] <Tepa> like mix coop+tvt
[19:45] <Tepa> then actually i migth return :P
[19:45] <Tepa> some thing diffrent
[19:46] <SSX-Killjoy> see, the key to SW is the little touches
[19:46] <SSX-Killjoy> and I think they can be done
[19:46] <Tepa> or massive fights...last 1 who stand wins
[19:46] * Retrieving #ssx modes...
[19:46] <SSX-Killjoy> But, must focus on one issue at a time
[19:47] <SSX-Killjoy> Also things like Pilot Histories (being ablet o access info on previous missions), historical stat tracking, clan/bio/pic setups
[19:47] <Tepa> sounds nice
[19:47] <SSX-Killjoy> Internal FS2 standings request/display
[19:48] <SSX-Killjoy> Kill boards, KOS boards, etc..
[19:48] <SSX-Killjoy> Shivan, Terra, Vasudan types
[19:48] <Athrun_Zala> hmmm can't say i'd like splitting nodes in fractions.....good thing about SW was the simplicity. You win, you get a node. Rewarding at the same time as being simple.
[19:48] <SSX-Killjoy> (snce now you can practically pilot anything)
[19:48] * SSX-MS is now known as SSX-MS`nc2
[19:48] <SSX-Killjoy> not all nodes would be difficult to win BD
[19:49] <SSX-Killjoy> they accounting would be random
[19:49] <SSX-Killjoy> so you would have x number with 1 node, and y number with 2, z number with 3, etc
[19:50] <SSX-Killjoy> and X would be proportionately larger than the y and y would be proportionately larger than z
[19:50] <SSX-Killjoy> so it would be a nice balance
[19:50] <SSX-Killjoy> of easy wins and complex stands
[19:50] <SSX-Killjoy> appease all .. 8-)
[19:50] <Athrun_Zala> yeah, maybe i could bite that
[19:50] <SSX-Killjoy> besides, all of this is just fluff until we can get a system in place that will do what we want it to
[19:51] <Athrun_Zala> true
[19:51] <Athrun_Zala> but dreaming don't hurt
[19:51] <Tepa> another thing would be nice
[19:51] <Tepa> random missions
[19:51] <SSX-Killjoy> which means a system that includes IRC, and stat integration
[19:51] <Tepa> it start to be crap when other picks same crap over and over...infact BORING
[19:52] <SSX-Killjoy> yeah.. good point Tepa
[19:52] <Athrun_Zala> true
[19:52] <Athrun_Zala> but the point of it was to give the defenders the choice
[19:52] <Tepa> mt12,mt12,mt13 all the time
[19:52] <Athrun_Zala> attacker would challenge, defender would set time, mission, number of players, ai or no ai.....
[19:52] <Athrun_Zala> it made sense to give the defender the upper hand
[19:52] <CheeseBird> Do we really want to revive SquadWar? o_O
[19:53] <Athrun_Zala> i sure do
[19:53] <Tepa> they do
[19:53] <SSX-Killjoy> we don't want the old SquadWars
[19:53] <Tepa> i try to offer help
[19:53] <Athrun_Zala> SquadWars v2
[19:53] <Tepa> and ideas :D
[19:53] <SSX-Killjoy> that pile of crap
[19:53] <Athrun_Zala> true, it was a pile of crap
[19:53] <Athrun_Zala> since it wasn't handled correctly
[19:53] <SSX-Killjoy> but if we improve it, remove some of the things that allowed it to be abused
[19:54] <SSX-Killjoy> I think we can have a very balanced, fun system for just fun games, or even incorporated tourney place
[19:54] <SSX-Killjoy> er.. play
[19:54] <Athrun_Zala> http://koti.mbnet.fi/darkwing/Msg/na.jpg
[19:54] <Tepa> needs new missions tho
[19:54] <Athrun_Zala> that looks like a good generic map
[19:54] <SSX-Killjoy> Imagine being able to setup a tourney and assigning times for each team to take each other on
[19:54] <SSX-Killjoy> Well the mods are out making lots of cool different things
[19:54] <SSX-Killjoy> but right now Fred is a pain to use
[19:55] <Athrun_Zala> i think there are plenty of missions to go from
[19:55] <SSX-Killjoy> but if we built a system that give them a reason to dream up new maps and make them
[19:55] <SSX-Killjoy> I think this could get interesting
[19:55] <Tepa> u can still use old fred to make missions
[19:55] <Athrun_Zala> true
[19:55] <Tepa> just not insert too much too complex event
[19:55] <Tepa> events
[19:55] <SSX-Killjoy> I have heard it is quite buggy with the new stuff

[19:56] <Tepa> just the events
[19:56] <SSX-Killjoy> ahh..
[19:56] <Tepa> when u have tons of diff stuff happening then it runs back to momma
[19:56] <SSX-Killjoy> hahahaha
[19:56] <SSX-Killjoy> well I am sure that could be ironed out if we gave them a reason to focus on it
[19:56] <SSX-Killjoy> 8-)
[19:56] <Athrun_Zala> aye true
[19:57] <SSX-Killjoy> Of course none of this stuff is gonna happen over night
[19:57] <Tepa> no
[19:57] <Athrun_Zala> actually i expect a full working version to be done in the next five hours
[19:57] <Athrun_Zala> get cracking
[19:57] <SSX-Killjoy> But i think with my involvement I maybe able to help pull together a great thing
[19:57] <SSX-Killjoy> but first... nature calls... brb
[19:57] <CheeseBird> TMI :p
[19:57] <Athrun_Zala> seriously though maybe we should start posting thoughts down on our forum, see what we remember, what could be improved, how, etc.
[19:58] <Athrun_Zala> get some sort of idea going
I can remember how most of it went with the schedueling of matches, and I think most of us can remember the things that were wrong with it.

Now, if this is indeed to fall in Killjoy's hands, we could technically come up with improvements for the actual (what it was) simplistic idea. We could also, get rid of the annoying, unfair stuff that was accompanied by the whole idea in the first place (which Volition never corrected.)

After I get some of my own ideas, I will put them here (most of them for now are pretty basic, I'd just like to re-create the thing without the stuff that made everyone want to be an ass, such as holding nodes indefinetly, or creating unfair times for the opposing team, etc.).

If you have any ideas or thoughts on the matter, put them down, let's see if we can somehow discuss this.

That is all for now.
Last edited by BlackDove on Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:39 am

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IF this is to work, the following things are essential:

-> Full moderation access
-> A properly planned and working auto-forfeit system
-> Automatically generated "maps"
-> Several very dedicated people donating their time

As for throwing around ideas:

I think a fixed "Squadwar" server would be a very good idea. The idea would be a server having two functions:

1) Any SW games would be played on it via dedicated host. I realize people will scream about bad connections to the server, but it would prevent.... certain things.

2) Track the data and generate the according missions.

I also have a bit "larger" concept, I'll try going through the major points here. Note that most of it is insabe gibberish and probably beyond implementation:

Each owned system would slowly build up itself. The server stores a mission file for each system, and will auto generate content in it over time. This would mainly be:

-> Stations
-> Patrol wings with random generated waypoints
-> Cruiser/Corvette defense to blockade the jumpnodes

The ships would carry the squad tag, as in SSXI Arcadia, SSXCv Deimos, etc. The names would be picked from a random pre-generated list. A player will always be represented with the nametag as well, as in, the individual ship will carry the name (or alt name, as it was untill now).

This process is limited however, so a system may very well reach its "maximum defense".

One such system may span a distance of say, 25000 kilometres radius, the according jump nodes at each end.

Each squad will have a main system, which can be altered later on. If a squad has no system yet, they will have to conquer a system (or claim an unused one) which will automatically become their home sector.

There would be several "scenarios" alike to the multiplayer missions. The defending team will know in advance which scenario will be played; the attackers will not know until the actual mission is generated. Each mission would remain unique as there may be different variables (for instance, a shivan attack may (little probabilty however) occur or may not) which even the defending team is clueless about. The defending team will have limited support of the system's fleet (see above).

If the match would "auto forfeit", which is, the defending team does not respond to the attack, a mission will be generated which pits the attackers against the defending fleet (as seen above).

Either case, if the mission is won, the attacking team wins the system, and all ships currently in the system will be destroyed. The system will immediately begin building up defenses of its new owner.

To prevent idling squadrons clinging onto their defenses, from time to time "shivan incursions" may happen as random events. These can happen in any unchallenged system (anywhere, basically) and are, in kind, somewhat treated like a SW match. A deadline will have to be scheduled (2-3 weeks?), but it can be dealt with any time before that deadline. If the deadline is met and the incursion is not beaten back, the system will lose its owner and remain "unclaimed". The incursion itself would be a randomized coop-kind of mission (not too hard). Basically, the players spawn in the middle of their system and shivans warp in. If the shivans kill a specific target (ideally an installation) the system will be lost.

And last but not least... The members of a squad will be an imaginatory attack fleet (i.e. will NEVER appear in-game, and exist only on "paper" and the websites). They will always "spawn" at the home system if they lose a fight. A fleet may be moved at a certain rate. If the system currently containing the fleet is challenged, the defender will have a bonus in defending the system (a fair advantage). The fleet may only move through friendly territory. If the territory of a squad is split up, i.e. NOT connected through jump nodes, all systems that can NOT be reached from the home system will be considered "auto forfeit", which means they can not be defended by the players, but only the AI which currently resides in them. (see above). As soon as the systems are re-connected, the players can jump to the defense again. (which should be a lot better than what the AI can throw at intruders. However the AI is not to be underestimated. A fully built system should stand a fair chance against an attack.)

To prevent a squad from coveniently moving their home sector just around when it's split up, the home sector may only be changed to where the fleet currently is. If the fleet happens to be in the part which was cut off from the home sector, they CAN defend against attacks against that cut-off part (and ONLY that part). However, as soon as one defense is lost, the fleet will respawn at the home sector, and the part will be without players. Another possibility would be to change the home sector to the one the fleet is in, in which case they would respawn there, but in turn be unable to defend the other part.

Because it may happen that the fleet is stuck in the cut off part, and a system connected to the home sector is attacked (in which case the fleet CANNOT defend against it), another mechanism is needed, so it isn't possible to just cut off the fleet from its home sector and then swallow up the rest of the territory, knowing that they cannot return until they lose a fight. That would simply lead to the fleet attacking an adjactent system and losing on purpose. So for this not to happen, there will be the option of "returning" to the home sector, in which case the fleet is, over a short period of time, placed back on the home sector.

You may now go insane, or ban me. ;)

Or talk to me in IRC because 90% of the above did not make sense.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:58 am

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Look at Lore's persistence...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:26 am

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Tepa
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If this isn't added on the list I'll add it now.

Completely neutral Administrators or a fully automated system! Nothing like "I don't like him/her" etc. crap or incompetent fools screwing things up, and then blaiming others.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:20 am

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BlackDove
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Okay Lighty, I think I seem to get most of it.

It does look interesting, and it does seem to in a way, connect Coop and TvT providing you can build those missions and manage to somehow randomly pick them.

It looks like a crapload of work though, if feasable at all (I know HLP's been talking about random mission generators for Fred or something similar, so I guess that's where it would come in?).

Although it'd be nice to see something like that one day (balanced, and that's hard to have if the things you mentioned are random -_-) I'm much more biased towards the simplistic version that would be a test of skills between two squads, rather than have different random variables thrown into the picture. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to the idea. It does sound fun. To be honest, it all really depends on how the missions are generated, and the whole process that's connected to it.

Here's what I've been meshing in my brain (this was mostly the website side of it):

The way it worked previously was that you'd go to www.squadwar.com, you'd enter your PXO account nick and password, and then you could join a squad (after being invited IIRC), multiple squads if you so chose. Any pilots that you made were invisible to everyone, and the only thing visible was a nickname you'd choose for your PXO login.

That's somewhat how it works in FS2NetD now IIRC.

Personally, I hated the cloak and dagger crap that PXO was full of. "Oooooo I want to be anonymous and an idiot on a newbie name, let me just create another pilot". I'd like everyone to have their pilots public to their accounts, and only one account per player if that's somehow possible. After all, you don't need multiple accounts, all you may need are multiple pilots.

Basically - Pilot+Account tracking for the public if you will. No more stupid bullshit (and this isn't purely because of the fact that we're a non-multisquadding group, I'm talking because all of the crap that went with the mistrust and trash-flailing which that entire system brought).

Anyway, I don't know how much that's possible, but I think it'd be a good start.

Moving on.

I'd like a nice, simple map with nodes. You win, you get a node. The more complex the node connections (adjacent nodes), the more complex the way to get it (that's part of KJ's idea I think). For example, more planets in a node, for which you have to make two or three wins to get the whole node. That way, more squads could hold the same complex node, and it'd be something higher and harder to fight for, probably more exciting too.

After that, we get to the challenging process itself. The way it worked was in (three?) stages, where the attacker would challenge for a node, the defender would get a limited timeframe in which to reply (think it was 7 days) with a 1)Mission, 2)Time for the SW, 3)Number of Pilots, 4)AI or no AI (I think?). The attacker got the stage back, and was able to pick between two times (this is the part I don't remember well), after which the defender would set the final time and the date would be set for the match. Note: I think the times for the match were always one week after the challenge was made (to the day pretty much). You could always contact the opposing team, and have the match earlier though (SW.com would recognise it as valid, because the random code input in the game would correspond to the match code given to the attacker.....I THINK)


This, in itself, was filled with bullshit.


The defender was able to impose an impossible time for the attackers, as much as the attackers could have asked for an impossible time for the defenders. Most of the time, both occured, and I'd assume both sides were equally pissed at eachother for that happening.

Other than that, the mission chosen by the defense team (and we did this as well, but we had a valid reason, unlike others before us) would usually be what they're strong at (nothing wrong with that), however it would usually be the same, and any Squad War that you would have with that team, would basically be one and the same mission all the time.

I could get by the number of pilots being chosen by the defense, as much as the AI part, although choosing werther to play or not play with the AI was entierly _optional_ for the attacker, because it was possible that the attacker deemed the AI to be his weakness, while the defender may have not.

Anyway, what I'd do with that part is the following.

Allow the attacker to challenge the defender normally. After the challenge is made, a mission is randomly selected by the website for the defender, and they are given the name of the mission immediatly. This gives them a full week to practice it before the actual match happens. As far as the attacker goes, I'd have the website give them the mission name one day before the match, so that they have the time to adjust to the mission is they'll be playing.

As far as the time procedure goes:

This was always a problem. I get it. There was a reason why there were three leagues. I get the way the globe works. Therefore, I'd level everything on a two and a half hour middle difference from EST and GMT. With it, I would also abolish insane playing times, such as anything after 22:00 or anything before 17:00.

So, that'd mean the game times would be in some weird time zone in the Atlantic Ocean (or something).

Example: When the SWv2 site says a match is to be played at 19:30, that means it'll be played at 17:00 for the EST people, and at 22:00 for the GMT people. Quite reasonable times on both ends of the spectrum I'd say (seriosuly people, I remember getting up at 5am to play with dipshits across the globe on a connection from hell, so I know what I'm talking about)

Admittedly, we could open two leagues, and level one on GMT time, and the other on EST time, but I guess we should do that only if a lot of people started playing, to generate at least 20 squads per each league. Not much sense in having 10 squads divided in two leagues.

The way to get to the desired time would basically be to throw two sets of times at eachother, until one of the times is agreed upon. Meaning it doesn't end with a bastard suggesting a time, then getting another time from the other guy, after which he can pick his own time.

Keep putting new times, until both parties can be sure that they want to play at a desired time (this also has room for exploits, but I'd assume things like these could be reported and a match time could be forced by an admin [ie, I don't want everything to be "forced ou"t all the time]) Also, I'd give a week and a three day extra difference to be chosen if the days aren't that hot as playing days. For example, a challenge is made on a Wednesday, and the option is to play it on next Wednesday soonest. The three days extra would be to agree on a Thursday, Friday or a Saturday for the time (I gather weekends = good playing times).

Naturally, the system is fool-proof, and it's got a time limit. If at any time one side is neglecting the challenging process, the result will work by an auto-forfiet (this is the same as it was...only this time it would work, and not be stuck in the challenging process forever). If an x number of days passes between the stages in challenging, where one side isn't replying, the forfiet is dealt accordingly. Defender doesn't reply, the attacker gets the node. The attacker doesn't reply, the challenging process is cancelled and a challenge has to be re-issued.

The number of pilots, I'd do the way it was dealt with in the original SW. A maximum number of pilots is set, but if the others can't make it, then the SW is played by the pilots that did show up (entierly by choice from both sides - both have the option to refuse at that point, and to re-challenge).

As far as AI goes, I'd actually force the issue. If the defender says that the AI has to be present, then the attacker has to comply as well.

Here's where we get to another problem though. After the selected play time, if the attacking squad or the defending squad put up a "no-show" alert with the outstanding challenge, usually the team that didn't show would also select the option and the outstanding match would never end until it was played.

The only way I can see that fixed is if a log is kept in a lobby (and we're assuming that we have one *cough*) so that it can be confirmed by the administrator and a just forfiet can be made.

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