Wonders

Build and expand your nation through trade, diplomacy, and superior firepower.

Wonders

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:30 pm

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Messiah
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Isileth and I both have our first wonders and we selected the Stock Market. +$10 on citizen income seemed like an obvious choice.

I am close to purchasing my second wonder and can't decide which is best. I like the Disaster Relief Agency because it increases population by 3% AND opens a sixth aid slot. That would really help with tech growth and my ability to aid our alliance when needed. The Great Temple is nice because it adds +5 to happiness and your citizens are always happy with the religion you choose. Finally, I also like the National Research Lab, which increases population by 5% and decreases tech costs by 3% (not that I would take advantage of the tech discount). With a 5% increase in population, I would add $200,000 in daily tax collection and two border wall improvements totalling +4 in happiness and +2 in environment (but would leave me with -1 improvements - does that mean an improvement is ineffective when you no longer have the population to support it?).

So, any thoughts on the best wonder to select, among the above or others?
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:06 am

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Isileth
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I will be going for the Social Security System next.


It actually earns me more than the Stock Market does, but I worked out that the lower income earlier would result in a higher gain for that month.

Then I have to decide if I stock up on all the financial wonders or go with Interstate and make another jump.


As for the Border walls you will still retain your improvement bonus when your at -1.

Also it seems for me getting border walls past my environment level is actually beneficial. So for those just following the guide its worth buying them and checking your bills and income each time.

For me the Stock Market added $300,000 while the SSS will add $370,000.

As far as im aware every point of happiness increases income by 3.75 (ish) due to all the effects from improvements.

So a +5 happiness wonder would add $18.75 to your income.
Taxes at 28% thats $5.25.
55,000 citizens gives you $288,000


So both the Stock Market and the SSS win when it comes to pure income.


+5% pop works out at about $275,000 straight gain.

Add the extra $15 income gained from 2 border walls, which works out at $230,000.
However that knocks off 4% of your pop which leaves your total gain around $270,000.


However that all relies on my calculations of income gained from happiness.


So in my mind Stock Market > SSS > Interstate (if your jumping)/+5 happiness (+5% pop might be better due to nation differences, its close whatever though)


Hope that helps :)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:45 am

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When should we be looking for that first Wonder?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:17 am

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Messiah
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It's a question of cash, but as soon as possible. You can only buy one every 30 days.

You're close to the 4k jump. If I were you, I think I would build to the jump point, keep buying tech, and reserve the rest of your cash. I imagine you are clearing around $2 million per day after expenses. In 15 days you could afford your first wonder. Buy it, and start saving the next 15 days worth of cash for your jump.

Repeat.

I don't crunch the numbers like Zeph, or even Isileth, but that is what I have done so far. I bought my 1st wonder before my 4k jump. I built infrastructure in the interim, and I am now almost ready for my next wonder. I'll be purchasing about 40 days after my first wonder.

If I were more disciplined, I probably could have bought a wonder after 30 days. I think I am overmuscled militarily, and I have put a lot of money into ensuring that I do not get raped like I did in that first war. Without the money I have invested in my military, I'd be farther ahead in infrastructure and wonder by now.
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:27 am

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Isileth
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Yeah really as soon as you can afford to get one its best. I would advise that your just before a jump however.

I didnt get mine till I was at 4,999.99. From what most people have been saying that was fairly late, but I think it worked well.

At 3,999.99 I wouldn't have been able to afford a wonder as well as 5 tech deals a month.


I think the key thing to remember is that you can only get 1 wonder a month, if you can get one early the $250-300k it will give would be very helpful. And of course it only gets better as you buy more infra.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:24 pm

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Zephir
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Messiah :p

As far as I can tell having negative improvement slots has no affect, it's a fairly common situation as population is highly variable.

Maybe I'll run the numbers for you later if I run out of things to do :)
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:57 pm

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Zephir
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OK I couldn't resist a little calculating, based on Messiah's nation stats.

Now given that I don't know your exact citizen count, happiness, environment, and average daily income per citizen.

A few quick calculations suggest that the Stock Market, Internet, and Great Temple all produce the most revenue, approx 310,000/day for each.

The Stock Market being the cheapest of the three would therefore give you the fastest return on investment, of approx 95 days followed by the Temple and Internet which would take around 16 days longer.

So your first wonder choice was the best one, and for the second choose either the Temple or The Internet.

If you PM me exact numbers for your citizen count, happiness, environment, any event modifiers and daily income per citizen, I'll send you the exact numbers for your nation.

Zeph
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:47 pm

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Messiah
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I knew you wouldn't be able to resist, Zephir.

83952 citizens
53952 working
58.92 happiness
1.97 environment
$341.22 agi
+$3 income from events

Have fun. ;)
Last edited by Messiah on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:04 pm

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Zephir
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Hmmm

95.54 seems like a low gross income per citizen, I need average gross income per citizen, not amount of tax revenue per citizen :p
Last edited by Zephir on Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:10 pm

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Messiah
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Fixed
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:48 pm

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Zephir
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Based on your trade set, improvements and the figures above :

You would get the following income/roi:

Social Security System : $368,053.54/109 days
Great Temple : $313,579.22/112 days
Internet : $313,579.22/112 days
National Research Lab : $257,637.48/136 days
Movie Industry : $188,147.53/138 days
Great Monument : $250,863.37/140 days
Space Program : $188,147.53/159 days
Disaster Relief Agency : $154,582.49/259 days
Universal Health Care : $283,777.12/352 days
Interstate System : $121,414.54/371 days
Great University : $ 87,358.15/401 days
Scientific Development Center : $206,109.98/728 days
Nuclear Power Plant : $ 21,247.54/3530 days

As you can see there's not a lot between the top three.

Of course you still need to consider how important secondary benefits, like the extra aid slot that comes with the Disaster Relief Agency, are to your current plans.

Zeph
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:17 am

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Messiah
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Now that is more like it. Thanks Zeph! ;)

I am struggling with the Disaster Relief Agency. It would allow me to add two border walls which would increase income, but really, it is the extra aid slot which is most attractive.
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:21 am

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Kon
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The Disaster Relief Agency doesn't work unless the other person has one as well. Even if Admin changed that requirement recently, it should still be one of the last you get.

Your first three wonders should always be Stock Market, Social Security System, and Interstate. The order in which you choose to prioritize those three is really up to you, depending on what you want to accomplish with your nation.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:53 am

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Zephir
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It's a tough decision, the extra aid slot can be a big help for Tech deals and for supplying emergency aid.

If you purchase the Disaster Relief Agency instead of the Social security System, it will be 30 days before you get to choose again. So what would you lose ?

SSS Income = 368,053.54 * 30 = 11,041,606.20

DRA Income = 154,582.49 * 30 = 4,637,474.70

So theoretically by choosing the DRA over the SSS you would lose 6,404,131.5 in revenue over the next 30 days.

That 6 million would pay for 200 tech in tech deals, or 65 infrastructure points (with the current 3 factories).

So what would the extra aid slot be worth in the next 30 days I here you ask :p

Well using the slot for a tech deal would get you 100 tech for 3 mill during the next 30 days. Buying 100 Tech outside a tech deal would cost you 16,331,680 for a potential saving of 13,331,680.

So are you buying tech outside of tech deals is the question ?

If so then undoubtedly the DRA is a much better proposition than the SSS. You would make 6 mill from owning the DRA and save 13 mill on 100 tech for a total benefit of 19 mill which is 8 mill more than you would make from the SSS.

Of course would you really be wasting that much money buying tech ?

The general rule most people use is as Kahn says Stock Market, SSS, and Interstate if you are buying infrastructure regularly (it may be worth holding off on the Interstate wonder until you are ready for the 8k jump, still researching that ;) ).

Exceptions are sometimes made in the event of war to get a military wonder, also the National Research Lab is a good counter for the Border Walls improvement.

@Kahn Are you sure about that ? from my reading the DRA gives an extra aid slot just like the Harbor gives you an extra trade slot. The Federal Aid Commission which raises the cap on aid by 50% requires both parties to have the wonder.
Zeph
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:51 pm

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Messiah
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I bought the DRA. I had trouble making the decision, but I really like the ability to accelerate my tech purchases or maintain current purchases while keeping a slot free for other business.

And in other news, I broke the 20% barrier. My nations is now in the top 20% in the game.
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:58 am

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Kon
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Bah. Massive palmface. :shake:
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:55 pm

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In hindsight, was the DRA the right choice Mess?
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Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:30 am

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Messiah
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Was it the right choice? It was the right choice for me, but I think my interests are a bit different from the standard rapid growth paradigm.

The population growth was nice and it enabled me to add two improvements. I have a great improvement spread now, including many militarily important improvements. I've been worried about defense since I was eviscerated in that war last summer. The ability to support a stronger miltary is great, and the DRA helps to enable that through population growth.

I just did get into my second 3x3 tech deal. I am now using all six of my slots to purchase 200 tech every 10 days. That is a really good deal, but it did take me almost 20 days to secure that extra 3x3.

Ultimately, as the stongest nation in our alliance, I think I need to be in a position to offer aid in a time of emergency. With 6 slots, I can aid our alliance if necessary, and possibly continue tech growth. I've got more flexibility now. I think that flexibility is ultimatley the best choice I could have made.

The DRA is not the obvious choice for nation growth, but I think it is a solid choice if you look to our needs as an alliance first.
"All I was trying to do was get people to want to make their own new ring of light so that it is forever a name with meaning and substance ...." - BlackDove the Beneficent

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:17 pm

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Seems reasonable, I'll be able to by a second wonder on the 20th, trying to figure out what path to take myself.
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Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:47 pm

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Isileth
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I purchased the SSS as my 2nd wonder.

Reasoning for me is that if I stay at my current infra for 1 more month I can buy the Interstate System and should have enough money in the bank to straight out buy 600-800 infra. Once I hit 6k infra I will then start really building my nation up rather than trying to get as much money as possible.

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:06 pm

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W11chter
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I received a little wub from raasaa and was able to buy my first wonder. Stock Market, of course.
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:29 pm

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W11chter
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Social Security System now. Woohoo!
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 pm

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I am going for DRA next.
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Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:44 pm

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Syro
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Gratz! :cool:

Re: Wonders

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:02 am

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Jericho78
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I got my first Wonder, the Stock Market! :D


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