Next Infrastructure Jump

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Next Infrastructure Jump

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:45 pm

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Messiah
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I am at the 2k infrastructure jump point. So I guess I will sit tight and amass some cash for the leap.

I'll send some aid to Vince next week when he gets restarted. Anyone else in need of some aid next week?

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:22 pm

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W11chter
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I should make my 1k jump today. I decided to wait awhile. I can also help out Vince when the time comes, or anyone else who would like to sue for aid.
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:59 am

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Jericho78
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Hello? Small new and developing nation here needs aid? :thumb:

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:56 am

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Kon
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Although I'm still pretty banged up from that one idiot, I think I can pass on the aid. I should probably just sign up for TVE next time around and I can be back in gear after 1 or 2 deals.
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:28 am

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Jericho78
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Durenor is preparing for her first ever infra jump. Woot!!!! 6M in the pocket and another new bigger tech deal coming. :thumb: :D

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:44 am

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Jericho78
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Did my first jump two days earlier, and got 500 infra from it. Not too bad for a beginner.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:57 am

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Kon
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Congrats on everything going smoothly! :thumb:
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution."

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:24 am

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Jericho78
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Based on my predictions and some guessing, I should be able to jump to 5th or 6th in the alliance after my next infra jump. Currently, I'm at the 1.4K mark. :thumb:

Do I wait till 19 days inactive and then purchase infra and do my jump at the same time or do I wait till 19 days inactive and purchase infra till 1999 and then wait another 19 days to jump or do I purchase infra now bit by bit till I get 1999 and then jump when I am 19 days inactive?

I'm also sitting on a whole s***load of cash, minus a 2M for Messiah's tech. :D

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:11 am

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Messiah
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Jericho78 wrote:Do I wait till 19 days inactive and then purchase infra and do my jump at the same time or do I wait till 19 days inactive and purchase infra till 1999 and then wait another 19 days to jump or do I purchase infra now bit by bit till I get 1999 and then jump when I am 19 days inactive?


I encourage you to use one of the jump calculators out there to get a firm idea of the cash you will need before jumping. My first jump ended up costing more than I figured.

The inactivity is designed to increase your revenue through interest. It is modest, but it helps. It also encourages you to plan your expenses and growth.

I took a look at your improvements and I think you should do the following.

1 - Always keep at least 5 tech on hand. You lose construction without it.
2 - Calculate the amount of cash you will need to jump to at least 2300. Add 1.5 million to that amount to cover improvements.
3 - destroy your labor camps and buy three stadiums and two banks. this will seriously improve your tax revenue. The labor camps aren't helping you that much right now.
4 - collect your taxes. Keep the banks and stadiums as long as you intend to collect taxes.
5 - when you are ready to buy infrastructure, destroy the 4 banks and 1 school. Buy 5 factories then buy all of the infrastructure you intend to buy. You will cut your inf cost by 40%. you will more than cover the cost of the destroyed improvements with that savings.
6 - when you are done buying infrastructure are are ready to go back into tax collection mode, destroy the factories and replace them with banks and schools.

The rule of thumb is to keep maximize your revenue producing improvements until buying infrastructure, then switch to factories while buying inf. Until you get to around 40 improvements, you should not permanently hold factories as improvements. You start with stadiums because they add 3 happiness which is great for revenue. You add banks because they boost income by 8%. Keep adding improvements that increase happiness and income. Somewhere I saw a chart that details an intelligent improvement schedule. I'll try to find it.

Hope it helps. And please remember, I am not an expert. I balked when Zephir first tried to teach me, but he was right.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:14 am

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Zephir
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I hate to contradict Messiah but the purpose of not collecting taxes before a jump is not just the interest it's mostly about the way taxes are calculated, you should always pay the bills and not collect taxes before buying the infrastructure.

This is because the tax/bill system is pretty simplistic. Your bills or tax collection are based on your nation stats at the time you click the button, they are not calculated each day based on the stats for that day and then added to the amount from the day before.

So if you are due to collect 20 days tax it will be calculated as current tax per citizen * current population * 20. If you buy a lot of infrastructure before collecting the tax your new citizens will also end up paying tax for 20 days giving a large boost to the tax you collect. Think about it, if you add 2000 citizens paying $50 per day that is an extra 200,000 per day or an extra 2 million on your 20 day collection.

That doesn't take into account the effect of any new improvements that you buy. In my simple example you would qualify for 2 new improvements, and if you added 2 stadiums they would (in the case of my nation add 50,000 each per day). So now my daily collection would be approx 300,000 giving me an extra 6 million if I collect tax after buying the infrastructure and improvements.

Bills work exactly the same they are based on the infrastructure, soldiers, etc. at the time you press the button to pay them, so always make sure you pay bills before a major increase of infrastructure or you'll end up paying a lot more.

Now the improvement cycle.

Between bulk infrastructure purchases always have 3 schools and 2 universities if you are a tech dealer as this gives you a 20% discount on tech and the rest should be revenue increasing (banks, stadiums). If you are not tech dealing then look at either revenue increasing or bill reducing improvements depending on what you are doing.

Before buying infrastructure, try to get as many factories as you can even if this means dropping some other improvements. As soon as you have purchased the infrastructure destroy the factories. I know this sounds like you just threw away $750,000, but again, look at the math.

The 5 factories will reduce infrastructure costs by 8% each, for a total of 40%. If you are buying a lot of infrastructure this far outweighs the $750,000 you "threw away" on factories. I'll use my nation as an example I have 1,920 infrastructure, now lets assume I have $10 million I'm going to spend on infrastructure. I'd have to pay approx 46,000 per infrastructure point assuming no resource bonuses. My 10 million would buy me 206 points.

Now suppose I scrap 2 Universities and 3 schools and buy 5 factories. The factories cost me 750,000, and buying back the schools and universities afterwards will cost me 615,000. So take $1,365,000 away from my 10 million and I have $8,635,000 to spend on infrastructure, what will this get me ? Well my starting cost for infrastructure is now 27,645 per point so I can get 291 infrastructure points. That's 85 extra points.

Remember that the more infrastructure you start with, and the more you are buying the bigger difference the factories will make.

If you are involved in tech deals always ensure that after you buy the infrastructure and are buying improvements that you have 3 schools and 2 universities to get your 20% discount on tech, and remember schools and universities also improve income, so you are scoring both ways :)

Now you are at the point where you should collect your taxes, and can then start the cycle again.

Hope this makes things a bit clearer.

Zeph.
"You're scared of mice and spiders, but oh-so-much greater is your fear that one day the two species will cross-breed to form an all-powerful race of mice-spiders who will immobilize human beings in giant webs in order to steal cheese." - Spaced (1999)

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:13 pm

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Jericho78
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Thanks Messiah and Zephir. Yes, I got what you both meant. A lot of calculations and planning but I'll manage.

The thing is as I understand it and in some parts, I agree with Zephir in terms of not collecting for 19 days and so on and I think I'm doing it right from what I've read in the CN forums, here as well as NV.

Just wanting to confirm what Messiah suggested, which I do not agree as well which I have typed in BOLD as well as reiterate my main question.

1. I agree, just didn't have the hindsight of purchasing the 5 tech to maintain construction bonus. I'll do it from now on.

2. Did some calculations and I have waaaaay more than enough to jump to 2300. My question here is should I jump in 19 days regardless of reaching 1999, meaning I jump from the amount of infra I have RIGHT NOW OR do I purchase 1999 infra when I have reached 19 days and then only jump AFTER THE NEXT 19 days OR buy a little infra each day from now on till 1999 and then jump when I'm at 19 days?

3 & 4. As of this moment, I have 2 Banks, 5 Labor Camps, 2 Schools and 2 Stadiums. The labor camps reduce the bills I have to pay each day, allowing me to save more for my next jump. A little each day amounts to a lot in 19 days. :D Buying stadiums and banks and perhaps schools, is most effective when you buy infra in preparation prior to collecting taxes and doing your jump. And since I'm not collecting, the labor camps will help me for now. Only when I'm buying infra, I'll purchase money making improvements as my citizen count allows it until one day my nation can support all of them.

5. Again, these only should be destroyed if I don't have available improvement slots for them. But since I already have 5 labor camps, those will be destroyed and replaced with factories when I'm buying infra and accumulating my count of banks, schools and stadiums without destroying them at the same time. Besides, I can only have a maximum of 5 factories. :thumb:

6. Yup, won't argue with this one for sure.

Again I would like to reiterate what Zephir mentioned to everyone. Bills and taxes are calculated AT THE TIME you clicked the button, not before and not after. So most important is to have the required improvements before you click whichever button, be it "Pay the bills" or "Purchase infra" or "Collect taxes".

Thanks again Zephir and Messiah for explaining. And Messiah, you're into this longer than I have and I appreciate any advice you can give but yeah, I'm balking with you now. :p

Lastly, I would appreciate it if I can have an answer to my question of when to jump? Or maybe either one of you already answered it and I did not realise it......... :sweat:

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:08 pm

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The labor camps were killing me in comparison to the happiness factor from the police stations. Happiness gets you lots of cash.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:28 pm

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Messiah
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Wow, thanks for the beating, guys.

;)

Zeph is right that you should always pay your bills before you jump, not after. I presumed you would need the cash from tax collection for your jump, which is why I advised it. If you have enough to jump, collect afterwards.

Jericho78 wrote:2. Did some calculations and I have waaaaay more than enough to jump to 2300. My question here is should I jump in 19 days regardless of reaching 1999, meaning I jump from the amount of infra I have RIGHT NOW OR do I purchase 1999 infra when I have reached 19 days and then only jump AFTER THE NEXT 19 days OR buy a little infra each day from now on till 1999 and then jump when I'm at 19 days?


If you can make the jump now, do it. No point in waiting.

3 & 4. As of this moment, I have 2 Banks, 5 Labor Camps, 2 Schools and 2 Stadiums. The labor camps reduce the bills I have to pay each day, allowing me to save more for my next jump. A little each day amounts to a lot in 19 days. :D Buying stadiums and banks and perhaps schools, is most effective when you buy infra in preparation prior to collecting taxes and doing your jump. And since I'm not collecting, the labor camps will help me for now. Only when I'm buying infra, I'll purchase money making improvements as my citizen count allows it until one day my nation can support all of them.


You are right that you do not need to destroy the labor camps before you are going to collect. However, I would not recommend repurchasing labor camps until you can support your revenue generating improvements and labor camps at the same time. I don't think you will get the same benefit from swapping improvement for tax collection/bill payment that you get when you swap improvements for infrastructure purchases. You can crunch the numbers to see if it is cost effective.

5. Again, these only should be destroyed if I don't have available improvement slots for them. But since I already have 5 labor camps, those will be destroyed and replaced with factories when I'm buying infra and accumulating my count of banks, schools and stadiums without destroying them at the same time. Besides, I can only have a maximum of 5 factories. :thumb:


Right, you only destroy improvements when you don't have the space to support the improvements you need at the time. You have to buy more inf before you have room for more improvements, which means you will have to destroy something to make room for factories.
Thanks again Zephir and Messiah for explaining. And Messiah, you're into this longer than I have and I appreciate any advice you can give but yeah, I'm balking with you now. :p


Like I said, I am not an expert. I didn't think I was so far off base, however.

Ingrates! ;)

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:30 pm

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I just followed your advice actually ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:32 pm

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Jericho78
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Hey sorry for the reply. I was just messing with ya, but I understand why you advised me that way, now that you've explained.

Thanks a lot Messiah. I have a much clearer picture now really. :thumb:

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:55 pm

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Messiah
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Jericho78 wrote:Hey sorry for the reply. I was just messing with ya,


And I was messing with you right back.

:thumb:

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:06 pm

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W11chter
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:thumb: all around.
"Wenn der Herr die Stadt nicht bewacht, wacht der W11chter vergebens" (Psalm 127:1).

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:52 am

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Jericho78
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Decided to make my jump today instead of 4 days later because I thought I should take advantage of the increased population bonus event when I paid my bills.

Managed to jump about 510 infra and got me a few more happiness boosting and income pumping improvements. :thumb:

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:34 am

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Isileth
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Thats a nice jump, seems everyone has been able to benefit from the mistakes of our first few jumps so should be better from here on :)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:34 am

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Jericho78
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Yup, as the saying goes, we should always learn from YOUR mistakes. LOL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:16 am

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Jericho78
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Another successful infra jump for the tiny nation of Durenor. The government of Durenor has also purchased its first batch of armored spearheads, about 3K units, one of many future purchases intended to strengthen its army. :D

Also, not sure what I did was right or something, but after this jump, I'm about 300 short for the next jump. :p


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